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Author Topic: Ballzac's Journey  (Read 863 times)

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ballzac

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Ballzac's Journey
« on: June 23, 2011, 05:36:32 AM »

So, after posting in the "introduce yourself" thread, I thought I'd better get one of these "Journey" threads started. I've looked at a few other journeys, and it's amazing to watch people go from beginner to jedi master in a thread  =) Hopefully this thread will be a similar historical record  XD

I just recorded myself doing a few things I've been practicing. I'm kind of self conscious about posting because normally I wouldn't post something publicly unless it was because I thought I was good at it, but I think this will help me get confidence if I can see progress I'm making, and hopefully some of you guys will chime in with some advice/criticism  =)

It's interesting, because even looking at the video myself, I can see a lot more of my strengths and weaknesses than just by looking in the mirror. Some things look better than I thought, and some look worse. An example of the former would be my body waves. I think some of them actually look okay. Of course I need to work out different ways of doing them so that it's not just the same thing over and over, but there's potential there. One thing that's worse than I thought is my hand flow. I didn't realise the gap between my left hand fingertips and my right hand fingertips changes so much. My 'internal' finger waves are terrible in this. I think I got 1 good one in, which means it's something I can do, and therefore practice makes perfect.

So, without further ado:

My Liquid Journal #1
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tommy VFIII

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2011, 05:28:17 PM »

oi, welcome to the site homes, by your long intros it seems like you are pretty interested in improving your skills :) i hope thats the case and you end up sticking around and putting in the practice time thats required todo so.

u said something about there not being hardly any decent liquid tutorials out there, not sure if uve been here but this is pretty much all the ones u need to know http://www.reddit.com/r/liquiddance/ . its a good idea to watch all of them multiple times, but imo 2-12 14,15,20,26,27 are more important than the others. if your looking for drills to practice imo the bitsmart one is a good one to start with.

ur handwave is what needs work first and foremost atm. focus on isolating each one of the joints in your hands perfectly and also focus on the space you are creating/presenting/manipulating between your hands.  try to bring alot of what you know about isolation from CJ into liquid because you seem to have an alright concept of it there but not in liquid yet. its pretty similar. also mess around with controlling your speed better, play with muscle tension to achieve that effect. not sure if you used different cameras but it looks like u used a webcam todo ur liquid clip, use whatever camera u used for your CJ clip, we cant give effective critiques from blurry 20fps footage.

you seeem to be adept at fingerwaves(given youve practiced them not much more than your other stuff) so if thats the case keep that up. i'm not the person to get digits advice from though.

last but not least, try to get in touch with sifi and/or rush to dance and get instruction from them in person, they know their shit and not everything communicates well over internet.  http://www.youtube.com/user/sifiguy http://www.youtube.com/user/LiquidRush

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ballzac

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 02:19:46 AM »

Thanks for the awesome reply. It's a shame so many people have one post from like '08 in the "introduce yourself" thread and haven't stuck around. I hope not to be one of those people, lol.

Your advice makes a lot of sense to me at the moment, so I'll see if I can put some of it into practice. I should also practice with some slower music, maybe 90BPM instead of 120 (which I though was slow enough, lol). The issue with the video quality came about because I used an iphone for both vids, but accidentally had the camera upside down for the dance one and the software I used to flip it compressed the video. I'll make sure my next one's better.

I've seen a few of those videos now, but not all of them, so thanks for the link. I'm actually noticing that there are a lot more tutorials around now than there were when I looked a couple of years ago. Really loving the tutorials by birdage. Really detailed and precise.

You're right about the handwave's needing a lot of work. As I said, I didn't realise how bad they looked until I filmed it. Thanks for giving me specific details on what I should be working on. That should help a lot. :)
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ballzac

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 08:16:38 PM »

A lot of the videos are no longer there, including bitsmart's :(
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tommy VFIII

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 08:34:57 PM »

ahh indeed @ the bitsmart thing, that mustve been recently. i'll try and contact the guy about putting it back up or letting me rehost it. but other than that and the primer theory vid(which isnt that important to you at this stage) all the other ones i mentioned are up...
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the tale of a trickle turning into a flood
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ballzac

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 09:20:17 PM »

Ah, cheers dude :)
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RichxFlows

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 02:40:53 AM »

Hey man nice vid and welcome to the boards. Names rich  Im not on as often as i should be but I'll never forget this place. stick with this forum its the best with awesome liquid practitioners..  -_- (spell check)

it was kinda cool how you started off too. You like have a sense of where liquid in your body goes, that took me awhile to get. keep up the good work dude and i hope you stick around
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birdage

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 05:13:30 PM »

Quote
So anyway, I started looking at videos, trying to imitate some of the moves, and I also looked at tutorials on youtube. I even started taking lessons from a guy who taught electric boogaloo style popping. It was the closest thing to what I wanted to learn that I could find in my area (Melbourne, Australia) but I didn't feel that what I was learning was close enough to the style that I wanted to have (I prefer illusion with, perhaps, a bit of funk, rather than funk with a bit of illusion), so I stopped after a few weeks.

This has been the downfall of many a dancer... except instead of quitting they just started dancing another way.

Quote
Anyway, it's several years down the track now, and I feel I've not learnt much. I started checking out what people are doing with contact juggling these days, and so many people have started combining it with liquid and many are actually really good at it. While it's inspiring for me, its also depressing because I see how far I should have come in this time, and really I've gotten nowhere.

Part of the problem is that I have the impetus to practice and to learn, but I really don't know how to do it. When I was learning the basics of contact juggling, there were plenty of good tutorials for all sorts of different 'tricks'/moves, and I could sit there for hours practicing them. With liquid, it seems that there aren't a great deal of tutorials out there. Many are by people whose skills I'm not that impressed by, so I don't think they're necessarily the best to learn from, and most of them cover the same one or two moves.

So I'm hoping by getting involved on this forum I'll be able to learn more through communication with others than I've been able to do on my own. For me, it's all about illusion. I've seen people tutting where they look like they're dancing for an nsync film clip, but I've also seen people doing moves that look almost identical, but the way they doing makes it look like they're doing impossible stuff, like their arms should get twisted up or something. It's that sort of illusiory stuff that I want to be able to do (i.e. NOT the nsync video :P). It doesn't matter if it's tutting, liquid, digitz or whatever. It's the effect of the illusion that I'm after, and it's the same thing that drew me to contact juggling. I would say that the quintessential reality-breaking dancer is elsewhere.

Okay I went through all the same problems as you. I wanted the illusion. And it ttok me awhile to figure this out but the robot is the base of all illusional dance. It's not necessarily the robot though it's what the robot teaches you... isolation. Compound movement is the enemy of illusional movement. Let's take Elsewhere (this is the best clip of him imo)

Elsewhere Kollaboration 2003



Everything he's doing is set up from the robot. All the power moves, waves, floats, and glides. Isolation moving one thing at a time. The thing is that when you spped up those isos you can't really see the robot unless you look for it. Most every illusional dancer who is sick has an incredible physical grasp of isolations. The robot is one path to achieving that understanding when you're beginning. Eventually you can loosen up and let it go somewhat. But in the beginning you must kill the isos and burn them into your muscle memory.


Isolation, mime techniques, speed/ time manipulation these are the basis of almost all illusional movement. But isolation is king. The cleaner and clearer your isos the better you'll be...


Simple Bottin Concept: Sequencing


And you said you're worried about learning from ppl whose skill level suck... trust Tiger's clips are some of the best liquid dancing I've ever seen.

Raw liquiding footage for Floasis Bio at the Fort Worth Water Gardens
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ballzac

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 07:04:45 PM »

Thanks for the encouragement RichxFlows. :)

Birdage, thanks for all the advice. That's really clarified a lot of points that tommy brought up. The thing about isolation being the foundation of these illusiory moves is something I should have known because I pretty much learnt that in the popping classes. I was taught that a wave is really a series of pops. e.g. pop your fingers, then your wrist, then your elbow, shoulder etc. Then smooth it out if you want it to look more fluid. That's pretty much how I got my bodywave, and it's probably one of the things I can do better than others. However, I haven't really applied this concept to everything I'm practicing.

It's really hard to know how to apply that to handflow techniques. Having said that, the main reason I'm trying to learn handflow is that I thought it would be a good fluid motion to build other techniques from. I don't really want to do a style thats primarily handflow. Don't get me wrong, I think there's some really awesome dancers who can make handflow look really trippy and put a lot of variations into it, but it's not something I want to focus on too much in the long term, but instead use it as another weapon in my arsenal.

Yeah, I saw Tiger's video on the main page of floasis. Pretty much blew me away. I'm gonna watch that roboting video and practice until I start getting it. At the same time, I'll start focusing on the isolation aspect in everything else that I'm practicing. I also just realised that's  the reason my finger wave (when I actually pulled it off) looked good. I guess it's impossible NOT to isolate a finger wave like that, so once you get your fingers to do what they're told, it starts looking good straight away.

You guys have given me so much practical advice that I can actually use to start working on improving. Very much appreciate it.
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Zero

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Re: Ballzac's Journey
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 12:49:05 AM »

Really good start... I like what you have going.

Couple tips/suggestions
- Tuck your thumbs in when doing handflow, really helps with the illusion
- Body Wave..  I feel like you have a decent foundation but are missing a couple key ingredients. Basically you're following all the right steps when you're waving down... to the floor. But when you're coming back up you're missing your stomach.

 I mean really push that thing out there, maybe loosen the belt a bit to help ;). Last part is the chest, shoulders, arms....

Well, the next part I had put all into words... but I think it makes more sense if you watch a video.. this is the video I used to learn the body wave and basically covers what you're doing right now and how to correct it. Move to the 3:50 Mark.

Ûol
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