Levels in Liquid? | Forum

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Message #1
So this has been a question i've been wondering about for awhile and wanted to get a fresh perspective from everyone. This came about when teaching a friend how to liquid, moves like figure 8 and hand flow were easier to pick up then say rails were. 

When he wanted to glide, I told him he needed to float 1st, it's where you have to start. Which left me wondering are there levels in liquid? (*edit* answer is yes)
&
How would you classify each concept?

Beginner : Hand Flow?, Figure 8?
Intermediate : Rails?
Advanced : ?
The Forum post is edited by Jcee 'FLUX' Mocean Dec 22 '11
kai Dec 22 '11
Message #2
If you were to think of Liquid in terms that the LPC video laid out, this would be a difficult and argumentive challenge to do. If you were to think of it in new terms (lines, planes, 3d objects and a seperation and connection of the body and space) it would become much simpler because each concept can be broken down into smaller physical and spatial mechanics and then you have a true understanding how many peices each concept takes to "build" which would naturally imply their complexity and hence, difficulty level.  Take the Figure 8 for instance. it's a curved line in space that connects back to itself. Pretty simple right? Easy to understand for beginners, as you say. But then you add plane dimensionality to it, you get a split, which is more difficult for people to comprehend. It becomes basic math at this point. Figure 8's are simpler because they have less dimension than a split and hence are easier to learn.  Of course this is assuming a redefinition of old and busted terminology that most people seem to want to hang on to for dear life because it's what they know rather than change and have more possibilities opened at the risk have (gasp) having to learn something new.
Message #3
I'm getting that I should calculate the difficulty based on the physics of it? And question 2 is still open for personal interpretation...
Quote from kai If you were to think of Liquid in terms that the LPC video laid out, this would be a difficult and argumentive challenge to do. If you were to think of it in new terms (lines, planes, 3d objects and a seperation and connection of the body and space) it would become much simpler because each concept can be broken down into smaller physical and spatial mechanics and then you have a true understanding how many peices each concept takes to "build" which would naturally imply their complexity and hence, difficulty level.  Take the Figure 8 for instance. it's a curved line in space that connects back to itself. Pretty simple right? Easy to understand for beginners, as you say. But then you add plane dimensionality to it, you get a split, which is more difficult for people to comprehend. It becomes basic math at this point. Figure 8's are simpler because they have less dimension than a split and hence are easier to learn.  Of course this is assuming a redefinition of old and busted terminology that most people seem to want to hang on to for dear life because it's what they know rather than change and have more possibilities opened at the risk have (gasp) having to learn something new.

The Forum post is edited by Jcee 'FLUX' Mocean Dec 22 '11
kai Dec 22 '11
Message #4
physics can be applied to any motion so, while i think certain types of physics (awareness and manipulation of gravity, bounce, atmospheres) can add complexity to a motion or concept, i dont think it effects the level of difficulty or complexity of the motion that its applied to.
Message #5
Alright substitute the word physics for kinematics then!
Quote from kai physics can be applied to any motion so, while i think certain types of physics (awareness and manipulation of gravity, bounce, atmospheres) can add complexity to a motion or concept, i dont think it effects the level of difficulty or complexity of the motion that its applied to.

kai Dec 22 '11
Message #6
i dont know what you should calculate the difficulty off of. my suggestion is to calculate difficulty by level of complexity, which is based on how many pieces make up a given concept. the problem is that in the current terminology scheme this number is elusive. this is (partially) why new terminology is needed for this dance. so it makes it easy to evaluate what people should learn first, second, third, etc. it also makes each concept scalable by allowing people to manipulate the pieces that make it up in different ways. but, that's change. and change is bad. change puts people outside of their comfort zone, which ironically is where learning happens. go figure.
John Steel Dec 23 '11
Message #7
Beginner : understanding moves
Intermediate : understanding concepts that drive the moves
Advanced : creating your own concepts
Moses Dec 23 '11
Message #8

Quote from John Steel
Beginner : understanding moves
Intermediate : understanding concepts that drive the moves
Advanced : creating your own concepts

This. I like it.
Message #9
I like the scale of learning you have presented John! Although I would like to focus on the intermediate portion. I would like to expand this category!

If you where to look at it from teaching concepts only. What concepts would you consider beginners, intermediate, and advanced?
Quote from John Steel
Intermediate : understanding concepts that drive the moves

John Steel Jan 10
Message #10

Quote from Jcee 'FLUX' Mocean I like the scale of learning you have presented John! Although I would like to focus on the intermediate portion. I would like to expand this category!

If you where to look at it from teaching concepts only. What concepts would you consider beginners, intermediate, and advanced?
Quote from John Steel
Intermediate : understanding concepts that drive the moves

For just liquid moves & concepts without the body & footwork

Beginners: handwave, figure 8 (these are just moves)

Intermediate: rails or lines (linear & circular arm placement), splits, basic miming (all of these are concepts that you can use with your "moves")

Advanced: abstract mime (a move for example would be the 3-d handwave, but that could be taught to a beginner... the concept behind the move is the advanced concept & kind of hard to explain)

outside of this is the concept of flow which should always be taught but whose meaning changes depending on how much of the dance you understand so it's a concept that sort of floats from level to level always changing